Class Discussion,
Main Room
Date 1/29/98
Start log: Thursday, January 29, 1998
3:21:00 pm Virtual Park Hall time --
FrankBl says, "I do not know who is he"
JasonOg watches Andrew sleep in front of the monitor
JulieOw slaps Kurt on the back of the head
KurtDa says, "what was that for?"
KurtDa says, "you're rude!"
MiMa says, "he's in the same frat as you...he goes to Mercer, but he's here all the time""
JulieOw says, "just keeping you in line"
FrankBl says, "He is a Lamda Chi isn't he"
JasonOg says, "Frank, your in a Fraternity?"
FrankBl says, "yes "
MiMa says, "i thought you are an SAeE""
MaggieCa says, "are you a Lamda Chi, Frank"
NickSm has arrived.
MiMa says, "even though that is not how you spell it""
FrankBl says, "I am a SAE"
JenniferCa has arrived.
MiMa says, "cool[C[C"
JoeSa has arrived.
FrankBl says, "hey Jenny"
AndrewGo says, "I'm a STUD"
MiMa says, "hey Joe""
JenniferCa says, "hey"
JasonOg says, "hey Jenny"
JoeSa says, "Hey everyone"
JenniferCa says, "get my e-mail Jason?"
MaggieCa says, ""hello Joe"
JasonOg says, "yes, I wrote you back"
JoeSa says, "Hello partners in crime"
JenniferCa says, "oh"
JoeSa laughs.
MiMa says, "Joe, do you want to eat with me, Charaan, and Cristi?""
Mr.Cole says, "Did y'all know there's a clock in the MOO. Type 'time'."
JoeSa says, "who is charaan"
AndrewGo says, "cool"
JulieOw says, "neato"
JasonOg says, "thanks Mr. Cole"
JoeSa says, "wow"
KurtDa says, "there is a clock on my screen anyway..."
MaggieCa says, "learn something new everyday"
MiMa says, "our friend from the eightth floor. She's friend with Craig too""
JoeSa says, "craig who?"
JoeSa says, "nevermind, yeah i'll eat"
JenniferCa says, "everyone watching the last supper?"
MiMa says, "you know him, he kl"
JasonOg says, "excuse me"
JoeSa says, "OK"
MiMa says, "sorry, i cannot type today""
Mr.Cole says, "Well, it's now 3:25 Virtual Pak Hall Time. I guess we should start."
FrankBl says, "have you got our papers done"
KurtDa says, "they will be mailed right after class"
JasonOg says, "yes he has"
MiMa says, "did anyone do bad""
FrankBl says, "I am sure that I did"
JasonOg says, "don't say that Frank, you'll jinx yourself"
Mr.Cole says, "Results have been varied. I am going to lecture a bit next week on a few key points."
JenniferCa says, "you are a good writer frank"
MiMa says, "uh, oh""
FrankBl says, "my grammer is awful"
JasonOg says, "thats not a good answer Mr. Cole"
JoeSa says, "so is your spelling"
JoeSa laughs.
JoeSa says, "just kidding"
JasonOg worries
JenniferCa says, "its ok jason"
MaggieCa worries too'
JasonOg holds his breath
Mr.Cole says, "I'll say now that many of you will probably be disappointed. My standards are high. But the key point is to try to use your failures to improve. If you show improvement over the quarter and are writing well at the end, the early
grades won't hold you back much."
KurtDa says, "better breath Jason"
ShannonMc has arrived.
JasonOg says, "I didn't like that statement either"
KurtDa says, "not good"
NickSm leaves for the Two.
KurtDa says, "there goes Hope"
JasonOg says, "Mr. Cole, give us some hope"
JoeSa is scared
AndrewGo says, "Man, what a way to look forward toward the weekend "
KurtDa says, "were all HOPEless"
MaggieCa says, "i think my heart just stopped beatin g"
ShannonMc says, "what's going on?"
MiMa says, "hey Shannon"
WendyFr has arrived.
Mr.Cole says, "of corse, if anyone has question or complaints about grades, do feel free to ask me about them. I ammore than happy to try and explain myself."
ShannonMc says, "what's hope home chicken?"
NickSm has arrived.
ShannonMc says, "I mean what's up home chickent?"
ShannonMc says, "It's hard to eat and type at the same time"
MiMa says, "nothing much, i judst got back from the gap"
ShannonMc says, "did you go with Charann?"
AndrewGo says, "We are getting started some time today, right?"
WendyFr says, "Hey Y'all"
MiMa says, "yes, i got alot of stuff"
KurtDa says, "H elping O utstanding P upils E ducationally for all you out of state people"
Mr.Cole says, "I don't mean to scare or depress you. If you work, you should all improve."
KurtDa says, "hey Wendy"
WendyFr says, "What are we doing?"
ShannonMc says, "did she give you a discount?"
MaggieCa says, "hey wendy"
Mr.Cole says, "So, I have a short lecture to explain what we're doing today. Then we can get started."
MiMa says, "yes"
Mr.Cole says, "Lights, please."
KurtDa says, "plan on being diappointed about your grade Wendy"
JenniferCa says, "you mean we have to work??"
Mr.Cole says, "Because we have had so little large group time this week, I want to emphasize that today. I also hope this will help us continue synthezizing the material we've been reading."
Mr.Cole says, "I would like you to go into your groups, elect a spokesperson, and come up with a group position on the following:"
WendyFr says, "why?"
Mr.Cole says, "What do American universities need to do to best serve their students?"
Mr.Cole says, "You can consider any of the topics that have been brought up thus far: the canon, gender/minority/class concerns, technology, preprofessionalism, etc. I'm only going to give you about 15 minutes to come up with a consensus, so tr
y to stay focused on the question."
Mr.Cole says, "When we come out, I'll ask each group to give their statement, and then I hope to devote the rest of the class to discussing those propositions. "
Mr.Cole says, "Good luck."
MiMa goes out.
NickSm leaves for the Two.
MiMa has arrived.
ShannonMc leaves for the Three.
MiMa leaves for the One.
WendyFr leaves for the One.
MaggieCa leaves for the One.
AndrewGo leaves for the Two.
KurtDa leaves for the Two.
JenniferCa leaves for the Three.
Mr.Cole says, "Get to it..."
JulieOw leaves for the Two.
FrankBl has disconnected.
JasonOg leaves for the Three.
JoeSa leaves for the One.
FrankBl has connected.
FrankBl leaves for the Three.
Mr.Cole says, "It's 3:35 VPHT, you have until 3:50 to come up with a position. I'll call ya'all then."
Mr.Cole says, "Just to remind everyone, the question is:"
Mr.Cole says, "What do American universities need to do to best serve their students?"
AnandVy has arrived.
AnandVy leaves for the One.
Mr.Cole says, "One minute, folks. Wrap it up and come out here."
MaggieCa has arrived.
JoeSa has arrived.
MiMa has arrived.
WendyFr has arrived.
WendyFr leaves for the One.
WendyFr has arrived.
AnandVy has arrived.
WendyFr says, "Hey, why are we here?"
Mr.Cole says, "Hi, Anand. "
JulieOw has arrived.
WendyFr says, "are we early?"
KurtDa has arrived.
AndrewGo has arrived.
Mr.Cole leaves for the Three.
WendyFr says, "hello?"
AnandVy says, "Hi Mr.Cole. I've been trying to log on from today and the line comes up busy. Is there any way around that."
AnandVy says, "I mean from home"
Mr.Cole has arrived.
JenniferCa has arrived.
WendyFr says, "will someone talk to me?"
JasonOg has arrived.
FrankBl has arrived.
WendyFr cries.
ShannonMc has arrived.
JoeSa says, "Hello Wendy"
KurtDa says, "hi Wendy"
MaggieCa says, "hello wendy"
JasonOg laughs
FrankBl says, "I am not rude"
AnandVy says, "Hi wendy"
WendyFr says, "thank you :)"
ShannonMc says, "hi wendy!"
WendyFr laughs.
JasonOg says, "hello Wendy"
KurtDa laughs at WendyFr.
WendyFr says, "OK, thank you"
AndrewGo says, "Okay this is just silly"
WendyFr says, "shut up Kurt"
KurtDa says, "what about our opinions"
Mr.Cole says, "OK, this will get chaotic if we don't have some order. So firts, off. could each of the leaders report their group's position?"
JoeSa says, "leader"
WendyFr says, "go ahead Joe"
KurtDa says, "get to typing Julie"
JoeSa says, "ok, I'm gonna state one point at a time"
Mr.Cole says, "Shoot, Joe."
FrankBl says, "We feel that the university does just about everything that they can, but it is up to the individual to try to make something out of it"
Mr.Cole says, "Thanks, Frank."
JasonOg says, "yeah Frank"
AnandVy says, "page say Mr. Cole I've been trying to log on arches from home and it keeps coming up busy. Is there any way around that?"
JoeSa says, "Minorities should keep their minds open, not focus on skin color, and make themselves better through action"
ShannonMc says, "good point, I agree"
JulieOw says, "My group thought that teachers should interact more with the students. Stop lecturing and boring the students. We felt that if students had a chance to be involved with the lecture instead of just copying it off of an overhead
they might learn more"
NickSm has arrived.
FrankBl says, "I agree"
WendyFr says, "right on"
AnandVy says, "say Sorry I did.'t mean for that to didplay right now"
JoeSa says, "Colleges should build on what was learned in high schools, not just making up their own curriculum"
WendyFr says, "true"
AnandVy says, "What was learned in high school?"
KurtDa says, "but every high school is diffrent"
AndrewGo says, "But there are som many different high schools"
AndrewGo says, "Good call, Kurt"
WendyFr says, "nice"
ShannonMc says, "but all high schools have different cirriculums"
FrankBl says, "but is the stuff you learned in high school going to help you in the real world because I do not think so"
AnandVy says, "I for one learned nothing in high school and and graduated at the top"
JenniferCa says, "i havent learned anything i wasnt taught in high school yet"
KurtDa says, "high school is a bad illusion of the real world"
AndrewGo says, "Of course it will"
AndrewGo says, "Those were the fundamentals"
AnandVy says, "True Kurt."
JasonOg says, "well aren't we special"
AnandVy says, "Not special. That was not my point."
JoeSa says, "Universities should teach what will actually be learned in the real world as well as the required classes like time and money management"
AnandVy says, "My point is that you can get good grades in high school and still not learn much of anything"
FrankBl says, "a lot of places do offer those things but many do not take them"
WendyFr says, "well that's up to your high school"
AndrewGo says, "Its up to the student"
JasonOg says, "good point Andy"
KurtDa says, "depends on your highschool"
FrankBl says, "who is Andy"
ShannonMc has disconnected.
Mr.Cole says, "Attention a sec."
Mr.Cole says, "So far we've heard: "
Mr.Cole says, "The university does just about everything that they can, but it is up to the individual to try to make something out of it"
Mr.Cole says, "Minorities should keep their minds open, not focus on skin color, and make themselves better through action"
JasonOg says, "stop repeating yourself Kurt"
Mr.Cole says, "Colleges should build on what was learned in high schools, not just making up their own curriculum"
Mr.Cole says, "Universities should teach what will actually be learned in the real world as well as the required classes like time and money management"
Mr.Cole says, "Teachers should interact more with the students. Stop lecturing and boring the students. We felt that if students had a chance to be involved with the lecture instead of just copying it off of an overhead they might learn more"
JenniferCa says, "must be springer time...shannon is gone"
Mr.Cole says, "Are all these propositions compatible?"
JenniferCa says, "thats a great idea Mr Cole"
FrankBl says, "it sure is"
NickSm says, "in theory this works, but in the real world there"
MiMa says, "yes"
MaggieCa says, "yes sir"
NickSm says, "is no chance"
AnandVy says, "I wen to four different high schools because we moved a lot and they were all the same."
Mr.Cole says, "So, what do we do, Mick?"
Mr.Cole says, "I mean, Nick."
AnandVy says, "Esay Except the students of course"
AndrewGo says, "No chance for what"
KurtDa says, " I went to two diffrent high schools in the same county and they were entirely diffrent"
MiMa says, "me too"
NickSm says, "dont ask me, i'm just a student. I can't change the attitudes of every study who adds to the problem. But that is what its about--attitude."
AnandVy says, "I mean in the aspect of teaching."
MiMa says, "shannon's in here with me, her computer shut down"
JasonOg says, "I went to one highschool and it could of been worse"
AnandVy says, "You're kidding if you think some teach better than others"
WendyFr says, "me too Jason"
JasonOg says, "some teachers do teach better than other"
AndrewGo says, "What do you mean you are kidding"
JoeSa says, "forget high schools"
AnandVy says, "Not teachers. The system as a whole."
Mr.Cole says, "Nice sidestep, Nick, but since this concerns you (and everyone else), it's in your interest to have and express some opinion on what your education should be like."
JasonOg says, "okay, my bad"
AnandVy says, "There are always special teachers"
AndrewGo says, "What would you do to change it"
JenniferCa says, "i dont think we should take all the classes we already took in high school"
JasonOg says, "But some systems are better than others I believe"
AnandVy says, "Some."
MaggieCa says, "some do teach better than others, but if the student doesn't take advantage of the better schools and teachers then ther is really no point in being there"
Mr.Cole says, "What makes a teacher special, Anand?"
AnandVy says, "Few and far between"
JasonOg says, "Schools such as North Springs are extremely good places of education, while Shiloh sucks"
AndrewGo says, "Hey I went Shiloh"
The housekeeper arrives to cart ShannonMc off to bed.
JenniferCa says, "my little cousin is a freshman at shiloh"
NickSm says, "im not sidestepping, i'm telling you how i feel. there is no way for me or the faculty or anyone else to change things. Students must want everything that they earn. No laws, or guidelines or whatever will change that."
MiMa says, "if they take the time to help students who need help"
AnandVy says, "The ability to spark an interest, an genuine interest in a student. Some teachers understand that we are all human and some act as if they would rather be doing something else when you ask them for help."
JoeSa nods in agreement
JasonOg says, "Anand is right on the money"
AndrewGo says, "Yeah, that is true"
JoeSa says, "so now what?"
Mr.Cole says, "It seems to me two themes are converging here: there must be a commitment from teachers and educators, and there must be a commitment from the educated. Is there any way we can foster such commitments?"
JoeSa says, "we being who?"
JasonOg says, "I can't answer that"
Mr.Cole says, "Well, anyone. This class, this school, this country..."
AnandVy says, "say It is difficult because educators have the power to do what they please. I'ts called academic freedom. Especiall the tenured faculty"
Mr.Cole says, "True, Anand, though tenure is increasingly under attack in this country."
AnandVy says, "They could take those surveys they hand out at the end of class a little more seriously"
AnandVy says, "I mean end of the quarter"
JasonOg says, "are you talking about students or administration Anand"
Mr.Cole says, "I don't mean to shut people out. Any thoughts on this?"
WendyFr says, "I'm just taking it all in"
AnandVy says, "say Adminisration. The students are pawns when it comes to learning. We learn what is given to us."
JoeSa says, "yes, since we all come from different financial and regional backgrounds, it is hard for every student or educator to be equally committed to learning or teaching a certain subject"
AnandVy says, "You are right Joe."
MaggieCa says, "good point joe"
Mr.Cole says, "Ah, good point, Joe. Or even if we are all committed, it may be hard to recognize it in each other?"
JoeSa says, "people value education differently"
KurtDa says, "julie, say what our group though"
KurtDa says, "thought"
FrankBl says, "it does not matter where you come from or how you are financially I do not think"
JulieOw says, "I already did like ten minutes ago"
JenniferCa says, "me too Frank..money doesnt make you study"
JasonOg yawns
JoeSa says, "I think it does, for some people...."
AnandVy says, "Exactly. We are all humans trying to learn about this world. That does'nt change from place to place"
FrankBl says, "why"
AndrewGo says, "Yeah, why"
KurtDa says, "hum..."
JoeSa says, "actually, some people wont study if they're parents have money"
JoeSa says, "woops, their"
Mr.Cole says, "To put that point another way, does anyone doubt that any of the authors we read tjhis week is _committed_ teducation? Yet they have very different views on how to go about. Some are even quite hostile to each other."
AndrewGo says, "Do threy think they can get through college on pay offs"
JasonOg says, "there is no system deciding which students will do well and which won't"
JenniferCa says, "my parents have money but they dont do anything for me with it"
FrankBl says, "but some people who have a fare amount of money do not study hard and some people who are rich study hard"
AnandVy says, "It usay That is very true. Some people are like, "Why work hard when I willget my parents money anyway."
JasonOg says, "I would be if my parents were loaded"
JenniferCa says, "my parents work hard for their money....they make me understand that"
JasonOg says, "but, they're not"
AndrewGo says, "These people don't go to college and if they did, not long"
MaggieCa says, "well those people are going to be rich and uneducated"
AnandVy says, "That why we're here isn't it? To get those little green rectangles we hold so dear. If wanted to learn for learning's sake we could go to the library and study anything. No we are here to learn a trade."
JoeSa says, "I'm not entirely disagreeing with any one person, I'm just saying that it is hard to foster the same commitment to educational learning for some people"
Mr.Cole says, "Is that dangerous, Maggie?"
JasonOg says, "Just because you have money doesn't make you stupid either"
JasonOg says, "it doesn't matter which way"
AndrewGo says, "Being rich and stupid do not go together"
JoeSa says, "It does for some people"
MaggieCa says, "is what dangerous"
AnandVy says, "Why not?"
AndrewGo says, "Your money leaves very fast"
JenniferCa says, "those kind of people are spoiled and dont deserva an educatio"
KurtDa says, "they do if they try"
Mr.Cole says, "being rich and uneducated. Or, for that matter, being poor and uneducated.""
JasonOg says, "holed on Jenny"
AnandVy says, "There we go saying "THose people""
JasonOg says, "these people are people too"
JoeSa says, "If your rich, your smart if you know how to manage your money, not spend it"
AnandVy says, "Isn't that the typr of thought pattern we're trying to avoid"
WendyFr says, "good point, Joe"
MaggieCa says, "being uneducated is dangerous period. "
JasonOg says, "Do the rich not bleed the same colored blood as the poor"
Mr.Cole says, "Nice poitn, Anand. "those people" is a dangerous phrase."
AnandVy says, "Yes. It is very dangerous."
JenniferCa says, "that also is a fault at home, if parents will do that for thei rchildren...not a fauklt from school"
AnandVy says, "Being uneducated I mean."
NickSm says, "jason, don't go out to far..."
JasonOg says, "sorry"
KurtDa says, "guys, it's time"
MaggieCa says, "if a person is uneducated and wealthy they will soon lose their money due to ignorance"
WendyFr says, "true"
AndrewGo says, "Man, it was getting good"
WendyFr says, "about the time I mean"
JoeSa tips his hat to a good discussion
WendyFr waves.
MaggieCa says, "can we talk more about this tomorrow. I like this topic"
Mr.Cole says, "I hate to say it, but we are just about out of time. Tomorrow is a web board day. It's related to the next paper, a topic sheet for which will exist shortly after I've finished emailing all the paper ones."
AnandVy says, "Very intelligent discussion from everyone today I think."
MiMa says, "joe, we will meet you at snelling around 4:30"
KurtDa says, "very much so"
JoeSa says, "sounds good Mi Anne"
WendyFr says, "bye everyone"
KurtDa says, "I need to go guys, I'll see you later"
AndrewGo says, "Bye"
JasonOg says, "good bye"
FrankBl says, "see ya'll"
MaggieCa says, "goofbye"
KurtDa goes out.
JoeSa says, "see ya there"
MaggieCa goes out.
MiMa says, "adios"
JenniferCa says, "later folks"
JulieOw says, "bye"
AndrewGo has disconnected.
FrankBl has disconnected.
JasonOg has disconnected.
WendyFr goes out.
JulieOw has disconnected.
JenniferCa has disconnected.
MiMa has disconnected.
JoeSa has disconnected.
Mr.Cole says, "If you would like to continue this discussion, I would recommend starting a webboard thread on it. That way people can think a little less hurriedly."
Mr.Cole says, "Iguess no one heard that."
AnandVy says, "Mr. Cole sorry about my interuption. Is there anyway around the problem I was speaking of."
Mr.Cole says, "one second, Anand."
End log: Thursday, January 29, 1998 4:17:39 pm Virtual Park Hall time --