Class Discussion,
Room #2
Date 2/9/98
Start log: Monday, February 9, 1998 3:13:19
pm Virtual Park Hall time --
ScottFr has arrived.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] MiMa leaves for the One.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] JulieOw says, "what group am I in?"
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] KurtDa says, "nope"
FrankBl has arrived.
FrankBl says, "hey scott"
ScottFr say, "how do you read the assignment again?"
ScottFr say, "hey"
ShannonMc has arrived.
ScottFr sits on couch
FrankBl says, "read 8 on note"
AnandVy has arrived.
AnandVy says, "Hello all."
AnandVy says, "What number note are we looking at."
AnandVy says, "Hello?"
ScottFr say, "8"
AnandVy says, "Thanks"
FrankBl says, "did ya'll read it"
Mr.Cole has arrived.
ScottFr say, "yup"
ShannonMc says, "hey you guys"
FrankBl says, "well what do you think about it"
Mr.Cole says, "Hi, folks. thought i would drop infor a bit."
FrankBl says, "hey babe"
ScottFr laughs really hard
FrankBl says, "that is to Shannon"
FrankBl says, "thanks"
ShannonMc says, "thanks Frank"
Mr.Cole says, "I figured."
AnandVy says, "Technology is definitely going to be the end of mankind."
ScottFr say, "whoa there "
FrankBl says, "I think that it has already started"
AnandVy says, "Sure."
ScottFr say, "nah, technology helps just be sure to keep nature in the other hand"
Mr.Cole says, "explain, Anand"
FrankBl says, "But I also think that in the buisness world the face to face meeting ties a certain bond that the computer will never fulfill"
ScottFr say, "good point"
ScottFr say, "but it does save time sometimes"
AnandVy says, "It will take me a second to type it all."
ScottFr say, "without tech half of us here would probably be dead if not more"
FrankBl says, "there are a lot of great times to use it but sometimes you need that extra reassurance"
ShannonMc says, "I agree"
ScottFr say, "with whom"
ShannonMc has disconnected.
ScottFr say, "nice girl"
ScottFr say, "j/k"
Mr.Cole says, "While Anand is typing, I would like to bring us back to the main question. Is technology _unnatural_? Does it take us away from nature? Is that necessarily a bad thing?"
ScottFr say, "only if you let it"
ScottFr say, "I am on the computer for about 2-3 hours a day, but I am also outside 3-5 hours a day"
ScottFr say, "its up to the person to balance it"
Mr.Cole says, "And is the time you sepnd at the computer 'better' or 'worse' than the time outside?"
ScottFr say, "I love both, they are complete opposites they shouldn't be compared"
AnandVy says, "We men have built and created a world which does not really exist here. Nature was here before us and we could not deal with the elements so we put up walls and built these "great" machines thinking that this was the way. I don
't beleive it was and the earth is telling us in the form of acid rain, pollution , the hole in the ozone, etc. We are plainly going to end ourselves. But in the grand scheme of things, it does not matter. Our enrgy will circulate into the universe."
ScottFr say, "the time I spend on the computer takes my mind off things just as outside does, but in different"
ScottFr say, "ways"
FrankBl has disconnected.
Mr.Cole says, "I suppose that is one response to technology (meaning frank's)"
ScottFr say, "what do you mean by our energy circulating"
AnandVy says, ": smiles"
AnandVy says, "Whoops."
FrankBl has connected.
ShannonMc has connected.
FrankBl says, "sorry somebody called"
AnandVy says, "I mean what separates all living things from rocks and other inanimate objects. That energy force inside us that some people call a soul."
ShannonMc says, "sorry, someone called and I got disconnected"
AnandVy says, "But even plants have this "life" force."
Mr.Cole says, "Welcome back, folks. You missed Anand's eloquent example of the technology-is-unnatural argument."
FrankBl says, "what did I miss"
AnandVy says, "Everything with life must. It seems to me at least."
ScottFr say, "are you saying that you as a person do not matter only your energy"
Mr.Cole says, "He said: 'We men have built and created a world which does not really exist here. Nature was here before us and we could not deal with the elements so we put up walls and built these "great" machines thinking that this was the w
ay. I don't beleive it was and the earth is telling us in the form of acid rain, pollution , the hole in the ozone, etc. We are plainly going to end ourselves. But in the grand scheme of things, it does not matter. Our enrgy will circulate into the un
iverse.'"
AnandVy says, "Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying Scott."
ScottFr say, "thats horrible"
AnandVy says, "I think its beautiful."
Mr.Cole says, "How about the rest of you, horrible or beautiful?"
AnandVy says, "We all die Scott. This obviously is not our final destination."
FrankBl says, "I think that the part that you say about us originally conquering nature is true but now many people try to woork with nature "
ScottFr say, "I am in shock right now, I have to go outside for a second and walk it off"
AnandVy says, "Technology is really man's way of seeking immortality."
Mr.Cole says, "In many ways, what Anand and Scott are debating is precisely what Kevin kelly and kirkpatrick Sale debate in 'Interview with the Luddite.'"
FrankBl says, "sure we all die but it sounds like you are saying why live"
AnandVy says, "say Why not live is what I'm saying. I love life."
ShannonMc says, "death is a part of living"
ScottFr say, "you just said that life doesn't matter"
ScottFr say, "only your energy"
AnandVy says, "No that's not what I said."
ScottFr say, "you said you as a person do not matter, thats life"
FrankBl says, "man knows that he can only go so far as to conquer nature but if you do not extend then we are giving up in life instead of trying to excel"
ScottFr say, "man knows no bounds"
AnandVy says, "say I am not giving up on anything. You guys misunderstand the argument. Think bigger."
Mr.Cole says, "I think these metaphysical questions are important, but let's try to tie them to the tech. question. Anand says (and Sale might agree) that tech. cuts us off from nature and or place in it. Agree?"
ScottFr say, "no"
Mr.Cole says, "Why not, Scott?"
ScottFr say, "I think both are important for us to grow"
AnandVy says, "Scott can you go out and fend for yourself in the wild?"
FrankBl says, "no"
ScottFr say, "easily"
ScottFr say, "I have done it"
AnandVy says, "Working for those little green rectangles has taken the place of hunting and gathering."
FrankBl says, "that is like saying if you watch tv then you do not like the radiio"
FrankBl says, "there are different times for different things"
ScottFr say, "enjoy and expand on the knowlede that was given to us"
AnandVy says, "I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. The earth has been through much more than we can put it throough."
ScottFr say, "use it"
ScottFr say, "the earth is here for us"
FrankBl says, "I agree with Scott"
AnandVy says, "Don't teach me. I try my best to use knowlledge."
AnandVy says, "Do you?"
ScottFr say, "certainly"
FrankBl says, "we are not teaching you we just do not aree with what you are saying"
AnandVy says, "Good. So lets get to the issue."
ScottFr say, "then why not use it on ways to expand life"
FrankBl says, "you are the one who is getting all defensive"
ScottFr say, "we are on the issure"
ScottFr say, "issue"
AnandVy says, "Why not. Why. Why not. "
AnandVy says, "That's fine. I happen to think technology is very comfortable and probably could not live without it."
ScottFr say, "then what the hell is the problem"
AnandVy says, "But it's still destroying the earth."
AnandVy says, "I mean we are actually looking for ways to live in space."
Mr.Cole says, "This is turning into a good debate. I suggest you take a look at PO, the very bottom of 251 and on to 252, where Kelly and Sale argue about the purpose of human existence. "
ScottFr say, "its also helping it and no its really not like you said before its been through alot more than us"
Mr.Cole says, "I'm going to check the others, but keep up the good work. Oh, and let Shannon talk, too."
Mr.Cole goes out.
AnandVy says, "You mean it hasn't been through a lot more than us?"
ShannonMc says, "hey you guys"
AnandVy says, "Hello Shannon."
FrankBl says, "what is going on now"
ShannonMc says, "nothing, I just don't feel good"
ScottFr say, "I mean it has been through a ton before we came and will be here after we leave unless we survive longer than it takes the sun to die or some big meteor"
AnandVy says, "What do you think about technology Shannon?"
FrankBl says, "in a way nature controlls us"
AnandVy says, "you're right Scott."
ShannonMc says, "technology is advancing day by day"
AnandVy says, "It used to. Thats why we built houses and such."
FrankBl says, "we get most of what we eat from it and the air we breath and the water we drink"
AnandVy says, "Now we are the masters of nature."
AnandVy says, "But we are cruel masters."
FrankBl says, "how are we the masters when it gives us all of that"
ScottFr say, "think for yourself "
ScottFr say, "and we are defintely not masters"
ScottFr say, "hurricanes and such have proved that"
AnandVy says, "We are an overindulgant species. We have sapped the earth of it's beauty and are killing it everyday."
FrankBl says, "I do not understand what you are saying Scott"
ScottFr say, "about what"
FrankBl says, ""think for youself"
ScottFr say, "he said we were cruel masters"
FrankBl says, "ok"
AnandVy says, "We can fly through the air faster than any bird. we can swin faster than any fish. We control everything. We use water for energy. We are the masters."
ScottFr say, "the day we think we are masters is the day nature will kick our asses"
AnandVy says, "Nature is already kicking our asses."
AnandVy says, "We do think we're the masters."
ScottFr say, "like hurricanes or some nice big meteor comes crashing down ending 99% of our population"
AnandVy says, "Why put up a fence."
ScottFr say, "I dont"
FrankBl says, "how have we conquered oxygen and creating water and a lot of our food"
ScottFr say, "we use nature to the best of our knowledge but we are in no way the masters"
AnandVy says, "That is what I'm saying. We dont need to conquer water because we're using it all up."
ScottFr say, "and we are not using it all up"
AnandVy says, "Isn't using it conquering it."
ScottFr say, "no"
AnandVy says, "Of course it is."
FrankBl says, "so are you conquering this computer by using it"
AnandVy says, "that what slavery was conquering than using."
AnandVy says, "In a metaphorical sense, yes."
ScottFr say, "no"
FrankBl says, "I have no idea what you are talking about with slavery"
AnandVy says, "We made this computer by comquering nature."
AnandVy says, "It was to illustrate that conquering and using go hand in hand."
ScottFr say, "call any scientist and ask him if he thinks we have conquered nature"
FrankBl says, "so are you conquering your voice when you use it,no"
AnandVy says, "I have I work with many at this unversity."
ScottFr say, "I am using he in the universal tense"
ScottFr say, "they think that"
AnandVy says, "A Frank stop being so literal. Think broader."
ShannonMc says, "you guys are too deep for me"
FrankBl says, "I am just using simple examples"
AnandVy says, "I'm not saying we've conquered everthing, but I think that's what we are trying to do."
ScottFr say, "of course we are b/c if we do they would be no more deaths"
ScottFr say, "we would live forever"
AnandVy says, "I mean it's not a bad idea. we were put here, let's see how far we can push this thing."
AnandVy says, "Scott I have had no clue as to what you have been talking about."
ScottFr say, "I am saying if we fully conquered nature then we would never die"
FrankBl says, "Shannon are you just watching"
AnandVy says, "What?!"
ShannonMc says, "no"
ShannonMc says, "what's going on jerry?"
AnandVy says, "Just because we conquer nature doesn.t mean we change out D"
AnandVy says, "DNA"
FrankBl says, "thanks for your input Shannon it is changing my life over here"
ScottFr say, "nature is exactly that, life and death of all things if we conquer nature we conquer life and DEATH"
AnandVy says, "We die. That is not an argument here. We cvannot change that fact."
ScottFr say, "in my sense of conquering nature"
FrankBl says, "we are going nowhere here"
AnandVy says, "We are talking about nature in tha physical sense. You are talking about the spitual side. "
ScottFr say, "you brought up that energy stuff"
AnandVy says, "spiritual"
ScottFr say, "and no I am talking in both senses"
AnandVy says, "Read what I said agian."
ScottFr say, "you said soul, thats spiritual"
FrankBl says, "your soul is a part of nature"
AnandVy says, "say You missed my whole point Scott."
ScottFr say, "you contradict yourself"
AnandVy says, "And no it's part of the universe as energy. It is not nature."
FrankBl says, "how is your soul energy"
AnandVy says, "You contradict yourself. I am talking about the same thing."
AnandVy says, "How is it not?"
FrankBl says, "energy did not put your soul there"
AnandVy says, "Can you see it?"
AnandVy says, "Physicists say it did. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed."
AnandVy says, "we need energy and are energy."
FrankBl says, "great neither can your soul"
ScottFr say, "I am saying that with more technology then we could possibly fathom there is a remote possiblity that we could "conquer nature" and would live easy immortal lives unless someone decides to try to murder you"
AnandVy says, "Just because you were taught about some conventional soul that some Creator put here does not mean its the truth."
ScottFr say, "first of all I am agnostic so don't point that at me"
FrankBl says, "sorry if you do not believe what I believe but I will stand by that until the end"
AnandVy says, "I believe in the cycle theory of energy "
AnandVy says, "Don't be sorry. It is of no value to me."
FrankBl says, "I am not trying to bring up religion into this but it is how I feel"
ScottFr say, "no one disrespect the others beliefs it is not our place to, lets not go there"
FrankBl says, "I agree"
AnandVy says, "No disrespect here. Just debating the facts."
FrankBl says, "we are never going to agree with each other so lets try to take a different route to answering our question"
ScottFr say, "well I don't think we all could possibly agree"
ScottFr say, "frank, you took the words out of my mouth"
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] JasonOg says, "Mr.Cole, Kurt is a lier"
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] KurtDa has arrived.
ScottFr say, "be right back"
ScottFr goes out.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] ScottFr has arrived.
ShannonMc goes out.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] ShannonMc has arrived.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] Mr.Cole says, "OK, folks. We're out of time. I will give you a few minutes tomorrow to come up with a group consensus and then we'll try to do some larger discussion."
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] JulieOw has arrived.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] GeraldLa has arrived.
FrankBl says, "tomarrow we will take a different route"
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] JenniferCa has arrived.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] JasonOg has disconnected.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] KurtDa says, "Jason, wipe your eyes, you've got crusty stuff on them"
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] AndrewGo has disconnected.
AnandVy says, "Since you believe in the say Sure. That's fine."
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] ScottFr say, "Mr. Cole, there is no way we could possibly agree with one another"
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] ShannonMc has disconnected.
FrankBl goes out.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] FrankBl has arrived.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] GeraldLa has disconnected.
AnandVy says, "Whoops."
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] MiMa has arrived.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] KurtDa says, "buhbye"
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] JoeSa has arrived.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] KurtDa has disconnected.
AnandVy goes out.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] AnandVy has arrived.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] JenniferCa has disconnected.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] ScottFr have disconnected.
End log: Monday, February 9, 1998 4:19:29 pm Virtual Park Hall time --