Class Discussion,
Main Room
Date 2/11/98
Start log: Wednesday, February 11, 1998
3:15:51 pm Virtual Park Hall time --
Mr.Cole says, "Really? Did you think they were hard?"
JulieOw says, "none of them grabbed me and said "please write 700 words about me" I will probably have problems"
JulieOw says, "excuse me 750 to 1000"
Mr.Cole says, "Well, as I said, you are always free to take on your own topic as long as it fits vaguely under the heading of science and tech."
JulieOw says, "See it is not your topics, I just wasnt too passionate about the whole tech and science thing, it is just me and I will have to deal with it I guess"
WendyFr has arrived.
Mr.Cole says, "Ah. Well that happens sometimes. Can't please everyone. But I bet there is some niche of this topic you can sink your teeth into."
JulieOw says, "I can try"
JasonOg has arrived.
JulieOw says, "hey Wendy and Jason"
WendyFr says, "hey Jason"
JasonOg says, "what's up Julie"
WendyFr says, "hey Julie"
JasonOg says, "hey Wendy"
KurtDa has arrived.
WendyFr says, "hey Mr.Cole"
JasonOg says, "have ya'll been to the surge truck"
WendyFr says, "hey Kurt"
JasonOg says, "hey Mr.C"
JoeSa has arrived.
KurtDa says, "hello, hello "
WendyFr says, "what?"
KurtDa says, "the surge truck down at tate"
WendyFr says, "have you cooled off since yesterday, Kurt?"
JoeSa says, "what about it?"
Mr.Cole waves to everyone.
WendyFr says, "I haven't been"
JasonOg says, "you need to go"
KurtDa says, "yea, got several e-mails about it last night, it's all good"
JoeSa says, "hey Mr. Cole and class"
WendyFr says, "why, Jason?"
MaggieCa has arrived.
JasonOg says, "hey Joe"
JulieOw says, "yo Joe"
JasonOg says, "you can get free stuff"
WendyFr says, "hey JOE!!"
JoeSa says, "what kind of free stuff?"
WendyFr says, "cool"
MaggieCa says, "good afternoon guys"
MiMa has arrived.
KurtDa says, "like surge, t-shirts, keychains, hats"
WendyFr says, "hey Maggie"
JoeSa says, "how?"
WendyFr cheers loudly.
JulieOw says, "hey maggie"
JoeSa says, "still there?"
KurtDa says, "just go to the tate student center parking lot, the truck is there"
JasonOg says, "Kurt and I went and had a ball"
WendyFr says, "I haven't been out of the room today"
ScottFr has arrived.
KurtDa says, "you also get coupons for free pizza and stuff"
ShannonMc has arrived.
Mr.Cole says, "I'm almost afraid to ask, but what's a surge truck?"
JoeSa says, "sweet"
JenniferCa has arrived.
KurtDa says, "you know what surge is right?"
JoeSa says, "the drink"
JasonOg says, "it represents the drink and gives you stuff"
KurtDa says, "yes, the drink"
NickSm has arrived.
JasonOg says, "you need to go Mr.C"
MaggieCa says, "it's a drink made by Coca Cola"
KurtDa says, "it kicks butt"
ScottFr say, "the new coke beverage to rival Mt. Dew"
Mr.Cole says, "Nope. Is it like Jolt cola?"
MaggieCa says, "very similar"
WendyFr says, "yeah"
JoeSa says, "yeah I heard it had tons of caffeine"
KurtDa says, "sort of, its more citrus tasting though"
MiMa says, "hey Joe, eating with us today?"
JasonOg says, "you also get coozies"
WendyFr says, "I love coozies"
KurtDa says, "I bet you do"
WendyFr laughs.
JoeSa says, "I dont think so. I've gotta work and plus I have a lot of homework "
JoeSa says, "thanks though"
MiMa says, "cool "
FrankBl has arrived.
WendyFr says, "why do you say that, Kurt?"
KurtDa says, "I haven't slept in two days, I thik I'm going to bed after english"
Mr.Cole says, "Nope. Is it like Jolt cola?@who"
KurtDa whistles
Mr.Cole says, "Sorry."
JasonOg says, "It is like Mt. Dew and Mellow Yellow"
KurtDa says, "It has lots of caffiene"
Mr.Cole shudders.
JenniferCa says, "its not like wt dew at all"
KurtDa says, "its pretty good"
ScottFr say, "aye"
WendyFr says, "LOTS of caffiene"
FrankBl says, "what are ya'll talking about"
JasonOg says, "shut up Jen"
JoeSa says, "yellow five"
KurtDa says, "Yea, I'm a little hyper right now"
JoeSa laughs.
ScottFr say, "Surge"
WendyFr laughs.
AnandVy has arrived.
KurtDa says, "SURGE!!!"
FrankBl says, "I like it"
JenniferCa says, "whatever Jason"
KurtDa says, "we're fighting already, never a moments rest"
WendyFr says, "calm down for today, Kurt"
JasonOg says, "I hate Kurt because he got the keychain"
JoeSa says, "so go back"
WendyFr says, "what keychain"
KurtDa says, "Jason forgot, what a loser"
KurtDa says, "a surge keychain"
JoeSa says, "how do you win stuff"
JoeSa says, "?"
NickSm leaves for the Three.
WendyFr says, "I figured that"
JasonOg says, "it screams 'surge"
NickSm has arrived.
WendyFr smiles.
KurtDa says, "they ask you to do something, and you win stuff"
ShannonMc says, "wht are we talking about?"
JoeSa says, "cool"
WendyFr says, "what did you have to do?"
KurtDa says, "the surge truck by tate"
NickSm says, "what are we doing today"
Mr.Cole says, "OK, folks. Let's get to business."
JasonOg says, "pull down your pants"
KurtDa says, "they make it up as they go along"
ShannonMc says, "I know what you are talking about Kurt"
WendyFr laughs.
GeraldLa has arrived.
JoeSa says, "Biggie Biggie Biggie cant you see..."
KurtDa says, "on Lumpkin streety"
KurtDa says, "street"
JoeSa says, "rhyme?"
AndrewGo has arrived.
KurtDa says, "what"
JasonOg says, "I had to play surge says"
KurtDa says, "?"
JoeSa says, "nothin"
ShannonMc is confused
KurtDa says, "he lost and got PO'd and starting yelling, so they gave him a shirt to shut him up"
WendyFr says, "what do we do Mr. Cole?"
JasonOg says, "I was cheated"
Mr.Cole says, "Yesterday's class provides a pretty nice segue to today's topic, which is audience. I was trying to make this connection then, but I imagine it got drowned out."
KurtDa says, "whatever"
WendyFr says, "I think it did"
KurtDa says, "yea, I think you did"
WendyFr says, "yeah, Kurt"
JasonOg says, "too many negative waves"
WendyFr says, "definite"
MaggieCa says, "way too many"
KurtDa says, "lay off Wendy"
JoeSa says, "for real"
WendyFr laughs.
KurtDa says, "SURGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1"
JasonOg says, "SURGE RULES"
WendyFr says, "you wanna fight?"
NickSm says, "shut up kurt"
Mr.Cole says, "As yesterday indicated, you will sometimes, pewrhaps often, find opposition to your ideas. The answer is NOT to try to shout down or browbeat that oposition into submission, but rather to find common ground with your oposition an
d try to persuade them from there."
KurtDa says, "you, me, playground, after school"
JenniferCa says, "ahhh i need to go to gilbert"
ShannonMc says, "ok"
KurtDa says, "sorry about that Mr.C"
NickSm says, "anytime tough guy"
JoeSa says, "whos gilbert"
WendyFr says, "OK"
AnandVy says, "So, technology, is it the Holy Grail or the end of mankind?"
JoeSa laughs.
KurtDa says, "oh my god"
ScottFr say, "a building"
ShannonMc laughs at Joe
KurtDa says, "I think it's a happy medium"
AnandVy says, "Mr. Cole?"
WendyFr says, "good call"
MaggieCa says, "me too"
ShannonMc says, "me too, until it gets out of control."
KurtDa says, "who's to say when it's out of control"
KurtDa says, "?"
ShannonMc says, "I think cloning is out of control"
AnandVy says, "It already is."
JasonOg says, "I have no strong feelings on the subject"
Mr.Cole says, "I'd rather lay off the big Technollogy Question for the moment. I have some slides that go into a bit more depth on audience."
Mr.Cole says, "Lights please..."
AnandVy says, "Okay."
JoeSa says, "camera"
Mr.Cole shows slide #1.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
AUDIENCE and ARGUMENT
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
KurtDa says, "action"
Mr.Cole shows slide #2.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
An important but often neglected part of writing arguments is
considering the audience. The audience you address may affect everything
from the points you make and the examples you use to your choice of
language and style.
Consider briefly the different ways you speak to your friends at school,
to your parents, and to teachers or employers. In each case, there are a
different set of social conventions and a different body of shared
knowledge which govern the things you can and cannot say, the things you
must explain and those you can take for granted
So, too, in written arguments, though due to the nature of writing, you
may have to address more than one audience at a time or consider the
possibility that people other than your primary audience may run
across your agument.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
KurtDa says, "ok, cool"
Mr.Cole shows slide #3.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
A narrowly defined audience can be a great aid to writing because the
audience can help determine :
Content: If you know your audience well, you may know what kinds of
arguments they will find most convincing and can tailor your argument
accordingly. A religious audience would likely find the Bible to be an
authoritative source on moral issues while cynical college students
might not.
Organization: Different audiences have different priorities, which you
can appeal to through organization. If you were arguing for curriculum
changes to a group of students, you might want to emphasize the fact
that it would help them graduate faster. The same argument targeted at
teachers might emphasize pedagogical benefits.
Language: Different groups have their own idioms for speaking to each
other. This may have to do with expected levels of formality, shared
references, or specialized jargon. An audience of computer experts
would understand the difference between RAM and ROM instantly while
a less technically sophisticated might need explanations of these
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Mr.Cole says, "Feel free to jump in with questions, if you have them."
KurtDa says, "what's ROM"
ShannonMc says, "none here"
AnandVy says, "What if you want to try and reach a more general audience? As in you don't really know."
MaggieCa says, "are you our audience, Mr. Cole"
Mr.Cole says, "Read-Only Memory, Kurt. "
KurtDa says, "k, thanks"
Mr.Cole says, "I'll get to those questions a few slides down the road."
MaggieCa says, "okay"
Mr.Cole shows slide #4.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Tailoring your audience to a particular audience can be taken _too_ far.
The biggest danger is that in the attempt to speak to one audience you
may alienate other audiences. If you write jargon-laden prose, only a
select few will even understand you, and even some of them may be put
off by the choice of diction.
Similarly, if you rely entirely on the Bible to prove a moral point, you
risk turning off potential audiences for whom the Bible is not an
authoritative moral guide. You may risk offending audiences of a
different religious faith.
Another common pitfall is creating an "us vs. them" atmosphere. It can
be tempting to blame a problem on some group of "others," while
congratulating your current audience for being on the "right" side. The
problem here is essentially fairness. "They" is typically misrepresented
or so vaguely defined as to apply to no _real_ group. An us-vs.-them
argument creates a perceived threat to make up for gaps in logic; it
replaces reasoned debate with antagonism.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
JoeSa says, "sometimes its impossible not to offend others"
JasonOg says, "I hate when people write like that"
Mr.Cole says, "Advertising and politics are two realms in which you can often find these kinds of abuses, by the way."
AnandVy says, "Dosay But us vs. them is real isn't it? As in partisan politics."
AnandVy says, "Spoke too soon."
ShannonMc says, "ok"
FrankBl says, "what are we doing now"
JoeSa says, "reading supposedly"
MiMa says, "alrighty"
ShannonMc says, "that's what I am trying to figure out"
Mr.Cole says, "It's not wrong to identify specifically a position or even a group you disagree with. But when it starts becoming a way of shortcutting logic, it becomes dangerous. An extreme example would be Hitler's blaming all of Germany's pr
oblems on the Jews"
FrankBl says, "do we have another slide or are we going to discuss these points"
Mr.Cole says, "I've got more slides, if y'all are ready."
JoeSa says, "fire away"
FrankBl says, "sorry to be jumpy"
MaggieCa says, "i'm ready"
Mr.Cole shows slide #5.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
A good general rule is to never make an argument to one audience that
you would have to deny or contradict to a different one. This is
essentially a matter of your own credibility. Even a sympathetic
audience will not support you if they know you have made the opposite
argument in other contexts or if they suspect you are misrepresenting
the situation.
While your opinions may not be _popular_ with all audiences, if you have
adequate support for them and have been fair in your treatment of the
opposition, you should feel comfortable defending them in front of a
hostile audience.
Remeber, you may earn the apporval of your audience by telling them
exactly what they want to hear, but this is no longer _argument_, for
you are making no attempt to persuade.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
GeraldLa says, "sure"
Mr.Cole says, "These may be some of the most important points. You should _expect_ opposition, or at least skepticism, but if you are arguing fairly and effectively, you should not have to fear it."
FrankBl says, "is it ok to right on an agrument that you do not agree with"
FrankBl says, "i meant write"
Mr.Cole says, "Do you mean to adopt a position you don't believe in?"
FrankBl says, "yes"
WendyFr laughs.
FrankBl says, "sometimes I can write better papers on a subject rather that the one that I stand for"
Mr.Cole says, "I would not recommend it. It might be useful as an exercise to think of the arguments _for_ a position you want to oppose, but if you find it easier to defend a position you don't really believe, I think that suggests you need to
re-examine your beliefs."
FrankBl says, "alright"
AnandVy says, "Maybe you write better on the position other than the one you beleive in because you are more removed from it. I.E. You don't care as much so your standards are lowered."
Mr.Cole says, "It _is_ true that it can be hard to defend a belief you hold passionately, precisely because of the emotional investment you havce in it (this may also have been behind yesterday's class), but you need to learn to gain some dista
nce."
FrankBl says, "you are right"
MaggieCa says, "my problem is that I don't really have any strong beliefs on this subject. What do you do in such an instance"
ShannonMc says, "that's my problem too"
JulieOw says, "ditto"
JasonOg says, "I don't remember, but I can find out on their "
JenniferCa says, "yep"
Mr.Cole says, "Well, you can always take the role of the 'dispassionate observer' trying to mediate a passionate argument. But I would also try to keep looking for some element of a given debate that does strike your interest in some way."
KurtDa laughs.
MaggieCa says, "okay"
Mr.Cole says, "other questions?"
KurtDa says, "nope"
WendyFr says, "no sir"
NickSm says, "no"
Mr.Cole shows slide #6.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
To avoid the problems of addressing a too-narrow audience, writers often
write for a "general" or "universal" audience.
The general audience might be described as an ideal audience of
reasonable, intelligent readers. This hypothetical group would be
open-minded enough to give you a fair hearing, but skeptical enough to
require proof or evidence of your claims. You would assume a basic
understanding of or interest in the issue at hand, but no specilized or
esoteric knowledge.
Assuming this general audience does not allow you to tailor an argument
quite so precisely as a more specific one. It is essentially a trade-off
of immediate, direct impact for a broader, longer-lasting appeal.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
ShannonMc says, "don't think so"
FrankBl says, "none here"
Mr.Cole shows slide #7.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
In academic writing, the universal audience is generally emphasized,
although as one becomes more advanced, the audience tends to become more
specialized and limited.
In reading your papers, *I* try to put myself in the role of the ideal
reader, putting aside personal opinion and assessing the argument on its
own merits.
That said, it can be useful for you to keep in mind the _real_ audiences
you might be addressing. Such audiences can pose a greater challenge to
the writer, as they may be hostile, obstinate, or downright slow to
grasp your argument. There may be deep-set prejudices you need to
overcome or unexamined assumptions you need to bring to light.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
MaggieCa says, "cool"
MiMa says, "ok"
NickSm says, "that is an interesting slide"
Mr.Cole says, "This sort of addresses the earlier questions about who _your_ audience is. In a strict sense, it is me, but I am not quite a real audience, because I specifically try not to have an opinion of your topic, but rather to assess how
well you have defended your points from a detached perspective."
Mr.Cole shows slide #8.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
For these reasons, the next paper has an audience component. For Paper
3, you must choose a _specific_ audience you wish to address on the
subject of science and technology: scientists, students, housewives,
politicians, Luddites, composition teachers, whatever. Tailor your
argument to that group (_without_ going so far as to alienate a more
general group of readers).
The first assignment for Paper 3 (tonight's homework) is to write an
_audience analysis_, in which you define the audience you are
addressing, your reasons for choosing that particular audience (why are
they a group that needs to be persudaded on the issue?), and how you
intend to address that group.
For this last part, consider how your choice of audience will affect the
language you use, the specific arguments you make, and the overall
structure of your essay.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NickSm says, "you have alot of slides today Mr. Cole"
KurtDa says, "yea you do"
JoeSa says, "call it organized"
Mr.Cole says, "Let me make clear that the "universal" audience is OK, but for this paper specifically I want you narrow down the audience."
JasonOg says, "Have you come up with any specific topics"
JasonOg says, "Mr.C"
AnandVy says, "I guess humans would be too broad an audiece?"
AnandVy says, "audience"
NickSm says, "narow the audience down to who"
WendyFr says, "how would we narrow it down?"
NickSm says, "or what"
Mr.Cole says, "Yes, I posted a topic sheet for paper 3 on the assignments page. It is linked from the home page and from the Web Board description of the audience assignment "
Mr.Cole says, "One last slide:"
Mr.Cole shows slide #9.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
For the remainder of today's class, you can begin discussing these
issues in your groups.
A good starting point might be to define some audiences that have a
stake in technology issues and what their principal interests or
concerns would be. Understanding the values and needs of a particular
group is the first step in convincing them.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
FrankBl says, "let's go"
MaggieCa says, "okay"
KurtDa leaves for the One.
AndrewGo leaves for the Three.
FrankBl leaves for the Two.
JulieOw leaves for the One.
ShannonMc leaves for the Two.
MaggieCa leaves for the Three.
WendyFr leaves for the Two.
JenniferCa leaves for the One.
JoeSa leaves for the Three.
GeraldLa leaves for the One.
AnandVy says, "two"
NickSm leaves for the Three.
JasonOg leaves for the Three.
AnandVy says, "What am I a genie?"
AnandVy leaves for the Two.
ScottFr leaves for the Two.
MiMa leaves for the One.
Mr.Cole leaves for the Three.
Mr.Cole has arrived.
JasonOg has arrived.
JulieOw has arrived.
JulieOw leaves for the One.
JoeSa has arrived.
AnandVy has arrived.
WendyFr has arrived.
ScottFr has arrived.
Mr.Cole says, "We are out of time folks. Good luck with tonight's WB assignment."
KurtDa has arrived.
JasonOg has disconnected.
ScottFr goes out.
JulieOw has arrived.
FrankBl has arrived.
JoeSa has disconnected.
KurtDa says, "bye to all, no arguements today"
WendyFr says, "bye everybody"
AnandVy says, "What s amazing Frank"
WendyFr says, "bye, Kurt"
FrankBl says, "this show"
KurtDa says, "see ya"
KurtDa has disconnected.
JulieOw has disconnected.
MaggieCa has arrived.
WendyFr has disconnected.
FrankBl says, "see ya'll"
FrankBl has disconnected.
MaggieCa has disconnected.
Mr.Cole says, "Do y'all need me?"
End log: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 4:20:19 pm Virtual Park Hall time --