Class Discussion,
Room #2
Date 2/25/98
Start log: Wednesday, February 25, 1998
3:15:44 pm Virtual Park Hall time --
WendyFr has arrived.
AndrewGo has arrived.
WendyFr says, "hey Andy"
AndrewGo says, "Hello, Wendy"
WendyFr says, "you feel better today?"
AndrewGo says, "Yeah"
WendyFr says, "groovy"
AndrewGo says, "How was your night"
WendyFr says, "pretty crazy"
WendyFr says, "but fun"
AndrewGo says, "Where did you go"
JenniferCa has arrived.
JenniferCa says, "ok what are we doing now?"
WendyFr says, "Uptown then Gus's then Tasty World"
AndrewGo says, "Is Tasty World any good"
WendyFr says, "it's pretty fun"
AndrewGo says, "Do they have good dance music"
WendyFr says, "it wasn't as crowded as other places"
KurtDa has arrived.
WendyFr says, "they have good music"
AndrewGo says, "Okay"
KurtDa says, "hello"
WendyFr says, " I don't really remember what music they played"
WendyFr says, "Hey Kurt"
AndrewGo says, "I like anything with a bad bass beat"
WendyFr laughs.
AndrewGo says, "I mean a really sick beat"
WendyFr laughs.
AndrewGo says, "Orbital to Outkast is my motto"
WendyFr says, "cool"
Mr.Cole has arrived.
AndrewGo says, "Okay, I think we need to talk about our topic now"
WendyFr says, "so what's they plan, guys?"
AndrewGo says, "Oh hello Mr. Cole"
Mr.Cole says, "Hey folks, I thought I would work with y'll today."
KurtDa says, "good, what did we talk about yesterday?>"
AndrewGo says, "Legulzation of all drugs"
JenniferCa says, "yeah what happened yesterday"
WendyFr says, "legalization of drugs"
JenniferCa says, "ok ok"
KurtDa says, "I don't know about all drugs"
KurtDa says, "....."
AndrewGo says, "Why not?"
WendyFr says, "where's Anand?"
AndrewGo says, "Probably outside somewhere"
WendyFr says, "he always has stuff to say"
JoeSa has arrived.
KurtDa says, "Marijuana is cool, it doisn't make for violent tendencies and such, but coke and herion and all that will really screw someone up"
JoeSa says, "Mr. Cole, we only have two people in our group"
JoeSa says, "Me and Jerry"
AndrewGo says, "okay but if the gov't controls hardcore drugs they can make them purer"
KurtDa says, "the purer they are, the worse they are"
JoeSa says, "ok"
JoeSa goes out.
Mr.Cole says, "OK then, drug legalization. Anyone want to summarize the arguments pro and con?"
KurtDa says, "please do someone"
WendyFr says, "Andy?"
AndrewGo says, "Me..well"
WendyFr says, "don't be shy"
KurtDa says, "I need to know what you guys came up with yesterday"
KurtDa says, "spit it out Andy"
JenniferCa says, "me too"
AndrewGo says, "Um..."
Mr.Cole says, "OK, how about just one argument pro or con..."
KurtDa says, "he's working on it"
AndrewGo says, "Welll it wasn't really pro and con yeasterday"
AndrewGo says, "It was more like discussing effects of drug legilzation"
Mr.Cole says, "I want you toi get in the habit of considering both sides of the issue, even if you know what position you want to take. It will help you build better arguments if you can figure out what the opposition will say."
KurtDa says, "pro's--1. we wouldn't lose as many police officers or as much money. 2. some drugs aren't as bad as the government makes them out to be (i.e. marijauna), and 3. We could tax the living snot out of them."
Mr.Cole says, "OK, they are some good pros. How about the cons. "
KurtDa says, "cons-- 1. They still cause one to be inebreiated (spelling i know), 2. We would have to create all kinds of laws about them. 3. we would make south america go bankrupt."
KurtDa says, "I can't think of very good cons for marijuana, but as far as other drugs, there are more reasons"
Mr.Cole says, "How do those arguments stack up against each other?"
ScottFr has arrived.
GeraldLa has arrived.
Mr.Cole says, "Welcome, Scott."
ScottFr say, "my group doesn't have anybody in there but gerald and I"
GeraldLa says, "can i join to?"
KurtDa says, "I like the idea of losing less drug enforcement officerws by legalizing marijuana, and the government making money on it (therefore lowering taxes) and all the other medicinal benefits also, but as far as cocaine and herione and e
xtasy and all those other 'more serious drugs' the chance of death and all is too great."
Mr.Cole says, "Yeah, Group one is understaffed today. You can stay with us. We discussing the pros and cons of drug legalization."
ScottFr say, "were's the enforcer (anand)"
ScottFr say, "where's"
KurtDa laughs.
KurtDa says, "we don't know"
WendyFr says, "he's not here. He usually keeps the conversation flowing"
ScottFr say, "thats too bad this is his favorite subject"
WendyFr says, "yeah"
Mr.Cole says, "OK Kurt, that's a critical point. Can one legalize pot without opening the door to these other hard drugs? That seems to be a major poinbt of contention."
KurtDa says, "why not?"
AndrewGo says, "Yeah"
KurtDa says, "we legalized alcohal without legalizing anything else?"
ShannonMc has arrived.
JenniferCa says, "we could legalize marajuana for enviromental purposes"
ShannonMc says, "I am lost"
JenniferCa says, "no other drug is like that"
KurtDa says, "you're right"
Mr.Cole says, "Jerry, Scott, your group is finally beginning to assemble, Why don't you go keep Shannon company."
GeraldLa says, "that was before the days of cocaine and crank and stuff like that"
ScottFr say, "say shannon and gerald would u like to go to our group or stay here"
MiMa has arrived.
KurtDa says, "one acre of hemp makes as much paper as three acres of trees, and it grows back a whole lot faster"
MiMa says, "what is going on?"
ShannonMc says, "MiAnne and I had trouble connecting"
Mr.Cole goes out.
JenniferCa says, "and it produces more oxygen"
ScottFr say, "mima lets go to one"
MiMa says, "ok"
GeraldLa goes out.
ShannonMc says, "It took me forever to get on arches."
ScottFr say, "same with shannon"
ScottFr goes out.
MiMa goes out.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] MiMa has arrived.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] ScottFr leaves for the One.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] MiMa leaves for the One.
KurtDa says, "and the seeds are among the most healthy things you can eat"
ShannonMc goes out.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] ShannonMc has arrived.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] ShannonMc leaves for the One.
JenniferCa says, "yeah they are"
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] JoeSa has arrived.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] JoeSa leaves for the One.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] Mr.Cole says, "All you lost group ones. Your group is finally all here, so regroup in your room."
Mr.Cole has arrived.
Mr.Cole says, "Sorry for the interruptions from migrants. Where were we?"
JenniferCa says, "about how hemp is better for the earth"
KurtDa thinks all the stupid migrants should go migrate somewhere else
WendyFr laughs.
AndrewGo says, "There is a difference between hemp and marijuana"
KurtDa says, "true, but both have their benefits"
JenniferCa says, "hemp makes strong ropes that the navy used to use"
WendyFr says, "so we should legalize certain drugs but not all ?"
AndrewGo says, "Hemp would defintely be a good cash crop"
KurtDa says, "it makes REALLY strong rope"
KurtDa says, "yeah it would"
AndrewGo says, "Yes, but I don't see what arguement for having to legalize crack and crank and X"
AndrewGo says, "What are the pros"
KurtDa says, "but the point of the paper is substance abuse, and hemp isn't an abused substance"
Mr.Cole says, "OK, I sense the public here is in favor of legalizing pot. Fine. You have a wealth of material to support your case, including the Gorman article, which covers a number of the arguments Kurt mentioned thus far. Think about your o
pposition. How do you convive middle america, Just Say No types that legalizing will not destroyAmerica s we know it?"
KurtDa says, "I have no idea"
AndrewGo says, "Get rid of the defict with taxes on joints"
AndrewGo says, "It can happen"
KurtDa says, "lower their taxes, they don't have to smoke ti"
JenniferCa says, "i dont see what middle america has to do with this"
KurtDa says, "the middle class is what i think he was refering to"
AndrewGo says, "They are part of our country"
Mr.Cole says, "That's a start, Andy. Is that enough though. Keep in mind all those anti-drug campaigns (this is your brain...) you are contending with."
JenniferCa says, "nobody has ever died from smokind pot"
AndrewGo says, "Yes, but even those are becoming less and less harsh to marijuana users"
KurtDa says, "leaglize it, but don't back it with a ton of advertising"
JenniferCa says, "more people die from cigarrettes"
KurtDa says, "than anything else"
AndrewGo says, "Yes, but look at the money an jobs cigarettes create"
KurtDa says, "pot would surpass that"
AndrewGo says, "We could do the same for marijuana"
JenniferCa says, "exactly"
Mr.Cole says, "Jenny suggests one point of attack (Kurt mentioned this earlier), proving the pot is not as dangerous as people think. "
AndrewGo says, "That has been tried time and again but it is that much propaganda has flooded the masses"
AndrewGo says, "Most people are just plain'brain-washed'"
KurtDa says, "it has the same basic effect as alcohol, minus the hangover, the wanting to go drive and such, and the throwing up. It is also impossible to over dose on marijauna. One would have to smoke about 40,000 pounds in 15 minutes or so
in order to die from it"
Mr.Cole says, "The alcohol and tobacco precedents ar OK, but keep in mind that America seems to be growing less tolerant of bot of those drugs (especially tobacco, which is quite under attck these days), so the precedent may not buy you much g
ood will any more."
AndrewGo says, "15500 pounds in one hour"
AndrewGo says, "1500"
AndrewGo says, "Anyway..."
KurtDa says, "still its impossible"
JenniferCa says, "people may like to know how much the cannibis plant will help the earth though"
KurtDa says, "if america is less tolererant as time goes on, why are the numbers of smokers and drinkings going up?"
Mr.Cole says, "are they? Do you have a source?"
KurtDa says, "yes, but I would have to go find it. I know those numbers are gong up among highschool and college age kids"
KurtDa says, "I also found this weekend that over 50% of college age students admitted to having smoked marijuana at least once"
Mr.Cole says, "Could you perhaps make the case that while publically people are willing to support a "War on Drugs," when it comes down to how they behave, they choose drugs."
KurtDa says, "possibly"
Mr.Cole says, "By the way folks, this is not meant to be a proivate conversation between Kurt and me. Please join in if you'd like."
KurtDa says, "It's like the environment---people want to save it on paper, but when it requires them to go to places to recycle and put any extra effort into it, they don't"
KurtDa says, "well I have to make up for yesterday"
WendyFr laughs.
JenniferCa says, "and the oxygen issue too....it could help fill in the ozone hole"
Mr.Cole says, "That sounds like basic apathy, Kurt. The case with drugs is different. People go to great efforst and take great risks to obtain drugs."
KurtDa says, "thats not stopping anyway"
AndrewGo says, "That is so true"
KurtDa says, "but that would take a while to explain, so maybe someother time when I don't have to type it all down"
Mr.Cole says, "Let's try to focus this down. What are the BEST arguments we've come up with so far for legalizing pot? (I assume we've given up on universal legalization)."
JenniferCa says, "enviromental factors"
Mr.Cole says, "that's one."
KurtDa says, "it would save billions of dollars a year we spend trying to keep it out of the country"
JenniferCa says, "its not as harmful as thought"
AndrewGo says, "Defict"
KurtDa says, "we could tax it"
Mr.Cole says, "that's two."
Mr.Cole says, "and three (not harmful)."
JenniferCa says, "its good for cataracts"
AndrewGo says, "Medicinal"
KurtDa says, "keep more police alive"
KurtDa says, "fights cancer"
AndrewGo says, "CLEAR OUR PRISION SYSTEM"
Mr.Cole says, "which, if any of these, are going to be convincing to the people whose minds we have to change?"
AndrewGo says, "Mandatory sentences suck!!!!!!"
AndrewGo says, "Defict"
KurtDa says, "there is some really intresting stuff at one of the NORML sight I found"
JenniferCa says, "cancer could be very convincing"
AndrewGo says, "Medicinal worked in CA and Arizona"
JenniferCa says, "i am very familiar with the norml site"
AndrewGo says, "Propostions 200 and 205"
AndrewGo says, "But Mr. Clinton isn'thelping helping"
JenniferCa says, "because hes embarrassed"
KurtDa says, "did you guys know that Newt G. introduced a bill in congress saying anyone crossing the US border with the amount equivilant to just under two ounces of pot, would have a mandatory death penalty"
AndrewGo says, "Not surprised"
AndrewGo says, "Of course he is embrassed"
KurtDa says, ""I think thats a little drastic, don't you?"
WendyFr says, "definitely"
AndrewGo says, "Those laws always are"
KurtDa says, "ok"
KurtDa says, "thanks Mr. C"
KurtDa says, "hello?"
JenniferCa says, "silence is golden"
WendyFr says, "hello"
KurtDa says, "this room must be made of gold all the sudden"
AndrewGo says, "Man, I just went blank"
WendyFr says, "don't have anything to say"
Mr.Cole says, "This is the kind of process you should go through as you prepare your papers. Think of what your best arguments are, think about what your opponents will say, and try to construct a _solid_ argument on a focused point rather than
simply grabbing 3 or 4 points that seem to vaguely support your thesis."
KurtDa says, "ok"
JenniferCa says, "i ahve an awesome book about hemp and stuff, but i probably cant use it"
Mr.Cole says, "It's hard. But that's how good arguments are made."
KurtDa lights a virtual cigarette after talking so much
WendyFr laughs at Kurt
AndrewGo says, "I know one good con for legilzaing marijuana (and my parents believe this too)"
Mr.Cole says, "I really want to stress the part about considering the opposition. That is one of the keys to sophisticated argument. It's another version of understanding your audience, which we talked about with the last paper."
JenniferCa says, "ewww kurt"
AndrewGo says, "Second hand smoke"
AndrewGo says, "I don't want my kids breathing in marijuana smoke at age 8"
AndrewGo says, "People would smoke anywhere they want"
KurtDa says, "me neither, that's why they need hash bars"
JenniferCa says, "then dont do it around them"
AndrewGo says, "I won't"
Mr.Cole says, "Nice point, Andy. keep that in mind all you little potheads. ;-)"
AndrewGo says, "Others will"
WendyFr laughs.
KurtDa laughs
AndrewGo says, "Hey, I resent that, may it be true for SOME of us"
WendyFr laughs.
Mr.Cole says, "Well, it's just about time. You guys can split. I have to go release the others."
KurtDa says, "like you Andy"
KurtDa says, "see ya "
AndrewGo says, "Hey, not in class"
Mr.Cole goes out.
JenniferCa says, "later yall"
AndrewGo says, "4:20"
JenniferCa has disconnected.
WendyFr says, "is it time to go?"
AndrewGo has disconnected.
KurtDa has disconnected.
WendyFr has disconnected.
[Mr.Cole's Classroom] Mr.Cole says, "It's time folks. Wrap it up and you can leave. We will have some lecture and a bit more discussion tomorrow."
The housekeeper arrives to cart JenniferCa off to bed.
The housekeeper arrives to cart AndrewGo off to bed.
The housekeeper arrives to cart KurtDa off to bed.
The housekeeper arrives to cart WendyFr off to bed.
End log: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 4:26:03 pm Virtual Park Hall time --